Post by Symon Kytley on Dec 20, 2014 23:45:30 GMT
Ok, in an attempt to eliminate some of the hangups that have slowed the melee, I've been thinking that a review of the jousting rules is in order.
That way any questions/issues can be addressed ahead of time.
I'm no expert (Symon is my first jouster), but here's how I understand it. Let me know if I missed anything, or got something wrong.
Giddy up!
Jousting is mounted combat. In general it follows all the normal rules for combat while mounted.
There are several exceptions of course, or I wouldn't need to make this thread.
The general format is that you make a series of passes along a divided field.
Each pass consists of each participant making an attack roll, and then dealing with the results.
In theory you are aiming for your opponent's shield, with the goal of knocking them off their horse without killing them.
In between each pass you may take one (and only one) Catch Your Breath action.
Initiative? We don't need no stinken' Initiative!
Jousters are assumed to strike simultaneously (Spear Fighter II would be hilarious here, but no.) As a result, Initiative is not rolled.
Ramming Speed!
There is only one action you can take: charge! Note that this means your attack will have the charge modifiers.
This means there is no point to spending DP/fatigue to get extra actions. Arguably you could spend a DP and a fatigue (or 2 DP) and get a second charge, but I think hitting your opponent in the back would be perceived as cheating.
Perhaps you could use them to get an extra Catch Your Breath actions, but that is up to the Narrator. DP are probably better used to add bonus dice or convert bonus dice to test dice, adn fatigue is probably better used to ignore the penalties from injuries or a wound.
Dodge this.
It doesn't matter how good you are at dodging. What matters is how well you can get your horse to move just right at just the right time.
Combat Defense does not apply. Instead you attack against your opponent's passive ride: (Animal Handling x 4) + (Ride bonus dice)
Note: this is NOT an agility check, AP does NOT apply. Shields do not add to it, nor Blood of the Royne, Acrobatic Defense, or anything else that modifies CD.
Wear the heaviest armor you can find, because AR is still important.
Tourney lances are crap, but they still hurt
Tourney lances have the fragile quality (2+ DoS and they break), yet on the jousting results table on page 168, they break if there are 0-1 DoS. So either the fragile property does not apply in a joust, or the lance breaks every time (unless you roll all 1s...). Also, while it is not explicitly stated, I think the notion of a superior tourney lance is laughable.
Regardless of whether or not they are crap, they still can do a LOT of damage. Their base damage is Animal Handling +3, +2 for charging, and are powerful for even more damage. That means that even if you dropped your Animal Handling to 1 and have no business on a warhorse, you do at least 6 damage per DoS. Most will be doing at least 8, and a starting character could go as high as 13 with nothing above a 4. This is why heavy armor is a must!
Tourney lances are spears
They also have a training penalty. Thus hope you have at least 1B in spears or you are at -2D right off the bat (-1D for not meeting the training penalty, -1D for the charge).
All other modifiers apply as they would to any other spear. Don't forget that you are mounted, and thus also get your Animal Rank as bonus dice (after accounting for training).
Assuming you have at least 1B in spears, the attack roll formula is: ([fighting]+[spears]-1+[animal handling])d6k([fighting]-1)
If you do not have at least 1B in spears, the attack roll formula is: ([fighting]+[animal handling])d6k([fighting]-2)
Note that it is an attack roll, so normal bonus die limits and modifiers apply (wounds, injuries, fatigue, Talented benefit, etc.), as well as the Tourney Knight benefit, of course.
The last one riding wins
Like any combat you can knock your opponent out with enough damage (though they can take injuries and wounds as normal). With the amount of damage that can be done, this can happen fast.
However, that is the secondary method (in theory). The primary method is by unhorsing them. If you hit your opponent with at least one DoS and they are not knocked unconscious, they must make an
Animal Handling(Ride) test to stay in the saddle. The difficulty is determined by the number of DoS: 9/12/15/18. Remember that any injuries or wounds you take to reduce the damage apply to the check!
If you are knocked off, you take 1 DoS worth of damage [AR does not apply!]
Note that if both riders remain defeated after the third pass, the tourney judges may declare a winner (typically whoever had the most DoS)
It is not wise to enter a tourney joust "just because". Unlike in the melee, there is a penalty for losing beyond any injuries or wounds you may take. The loser of a joust must give their armor and their horse to the victor. Typically they are ransomed back for the monetary value of the objects, but that is up to the victor.
Maneuvers
Jousting isn't just a dice-off, however. There are maneuvers you can choose to modify your rolls. Every maneuver has a penalty that comes with it's benefits, however.
For each pass, you choose a maneuver. Ostensibly you should not know your opponent's maneuver in advance, but as the is PbP that is difficult to arrange. I would however suggest that we put the name of the maneuver in the the die roll description, as you are supposed to choose the maneuver before rolling.
Note: X is either 1 or 2, your choice.
Cheating
I don't really have to go over this, right? We're all honorable folks who would never... what's that you said? Oh fine, I'll go over it.
There are two ways to cheat in a joust. 1) aim for the rider or 2) aim for their horse.
Presumably this would mean making your attack roll against the rider's CD or the horse's, rather than their passive Ride. Either CD will likely be much lower, so you will have a much better chance of success... and of course, a higher chance of doing serious damage, which is why it's not allowed! If you do cheat, you make a deception check against passive awareness checks to escape notice. Presumably, it will be against your opponent and any judges, as well. Even if you successfully pass it off as having been an accident, your victory will be tainted by the bad blow and it may have a negative impact on your reputation.
One final note, remember that in this particular joust there will be five champions. You pick one to challenge, and if you defeat them, you take their place as a champion. At the end of the competition, the five champions are declared the victors.
This opens up new avenues of strategy. First, when do you challenge a champion? If you go early, you will face more opponents and get slowly worn down with injuries, making it less likely that you will be a champion at the end. On the other hand, going early means you may defeat more challengers, getting additional armor and horses to ransom off. A big opportunity to make money.
Second, whom do you attack? Defeating a young and unknown champion may be easier than taking on Ser Loras, but imagine the fame and prestige!
That way any questions/issues can be addressed ahead of time.
I'm no expert (Symon is my first jouster), but here's how I understand it. Let me know if I missed anything, or got something wrong.
Giddy up!
Jousting is mounted combat. In general it follows all the normal rules for combat while mounted.
There are several exceptions of course, or I wouldn't need to make this thread.
The general format is that you make a series of passes along a divided field.
Each pass consists of each participant making an attack roll, and then dealing with the results.
In theory you are aiming for your opponent's shield, with the goal of knocking them off their horse without killing them.
In between each pass you may take one (and only one) Catch Your Breath action.
Initiative? We don't need no stinken' Initiative!
Jousters are assumed to strike simultaneously (Spear Fighter II would be hilarious here, but no.) As a result, Initiative is not rolled.
Ramming Speed!
There is only one action you can take: charge! Note that this means your attack will have the charge modifiers.
This means there is no point to spending DP/fatigue to get extra actions. Arguably you could spend a DP and a fatigue (or 2 DP) and get a second charge, but I think hitting your opponent in the back would be perceived as cheating.
Perhaps you could use them to get an extra Catch Your Breath actions, but that is up to the Narrator. DP are probably better used to add bonus dice or convert bonus dice to test dice, adn fatigue is probably better used to ignore the penalties from injuries or a wound.
Dodge this.
It doesn't matter how good you are at dodging. What matters is how well you can get your horse to move just right at just the right time.
Combat Defense does not apply. Instead you attack against your opponent's passive ride: (Animal Handling x 4) + (Ride bonus dice)
Note: this is NOT an agility check, AP does NOT apply. Shields do not add to it, nor Blood of the Royne, Acrobatic Defense, or anything else that modifies CD.
Wear the heaviest armor you can find, because AR is still important.
Tourney lances are crap, but they still hurt
Tourney lances have the fragile quality (2+ DoS and they break), yet on the jousting results table on page 168, they break if there are 0-1 DoS. So either the fragile property does not apply in a joust, or the lance breaks every time (unless you roll all 1s...). Also, while it is not explicitly stated, I think the notion of a superior tourney lance is laughable.
Regardless of whether or not they are crap, they still can do a LOT of damage. Their base damage is Animal Handling +3, +2 for charging, and are powerful for even more damage. That means that even if you dropped your Animal Handling to 1 and have no business on a warhorse, you do at least 6 damage per DoS. Most will be doing at least 8, and a starting character could go as high as 13 with nothing above a 4. This is why heavy armor is a must!
Tourney lances are spears
They also have a training penalty. Thus hope you have at least 1B in spears or you are at -2D right off the bat (-1D for not meeting the training penalty, -1D for the charge).
All other modifiers apply as they would to any other spear. Don't forget that you are mounted, and thus also get your Animal Rank as bonus dice (after accounting for training).
Assuming you have at least 1B in spears, the attack roll formula is: ([fighting]+[spears]-1+[animal handling])d6k([fighting]-1)
If you do not have at least 1B in spears, the attack roll formula is: ([fighting]+[animal handling])d6k([fighting]-2)
Note that it is an attack roll, so normal bonus die limits and modifiers apply (wounds, injuries, fatigue, Talented benefit, etc.), as well as the Tourney Knight benefit, of course.
The last one riding wins
Like any combat you can knock your opponent out with enough damage (though they can take injuries and wounds as normal). With the amount of damage that can be done, this can happen fast.
However, that is the secondary method (in theory). The primary method is by unhorsing them. If you hit your opponent with at least one DoS and they are not knocked unconscious, they must make an
Animal Handling(Ride) test to stay in the saddle. The difficulty is determined by the number of DoS: 9/12/15/18. Remember that any injuries or wounds you take to reduce the damage apply to the check!
If you are knocked off, you take 1 DoS worth of damage [AR does not apply!]
Note that if both riders remain defeated after the third pass, the tourney judges may declare a winner (typically whoever had the most DoS)
It is not wise to enter a tourney joust "just because". Unlike in the melee, there is a penalty for losing beyond any injuries or wounds you may take. The loser of a joust must give their armor and their horse to the victor. Typically they are ransomed back for the monetary value of the objects, but that is up to the victor.
Maneuvers
Jousting isn't just a dice-off, however. There are maneuvers you can choose to modify your rolls. Every maneuver has a penalty that comes with it's benefits, however.
For each pass, you choose a maneuver. Ostensibly you should not know your opponent's maneuver in advance, but as the is PbP that is difficult to arrange. I would however suggest that we put the name of the maneuver in the the die roll description, as you are supposed to choose the maneuver before rolling.
| Name | Benefit | Penalty |
| Standard | none | none |
| Aggressive | +X on fighting check | -X on passive Ride (easier to hit you) |
| Braced | +X on Ride check to stay in saddle if you are hit | -X on fighting check |
| Defensive | +X to passive Ride (harder to hit you) | -X on fighting check |
| Eyes Fixed | +1 on fighting check | +1 damage per DoS dealt to you if hit, may lose an eye or die if defeated |
| High in the Saddle | +X on fighting check | -X on Ride check to stay in saddle if you are hit |
Cheating
I don't really have to go over this, right? We're all honorable folks who would never... what's that you said? Oh fine, I'll go over it.
There are two ways to cheat in a joust. 1) aim for the rider or 2) aim for their horse.
Presumably this would mean making your attack roll against the rider's CD or the horse's, rather than their passive Ride. Either CD will likely be much lower, so you will have a much better chance of success... and of course, a higher chance of doing serious damage, which is why it's not allowed! If you do cheat, you make a deception check against passive awareness checks to escape notice. Presumably, it will be against your opponent and any judges, as well. Even if you successfully pass it off as having been an accident, your victory will be tainted by the bad blow and it may have a negative impact on your reputation.
One final note, remember that in this particular joust there will be five champions. You pick one to challenge, and if you defeat them, you take their place as a champion. At the end of the competition, the five champions are declared the victors.
This opens up new avenues of strategy. First, when do you challenge a champion? If you go early, you will face more opponents and get slowly worn down with injuries, making it less likely that you will be a champion at the end. On the other hand, going early means you may defeat more challengers, getting additional armor and horses to ransom off. A big opportunity to make money.
Second, whom do you attack? Defeating a young and unknown champion may be easier than taking on Ser Loras, but imagine the fame and prestige!
It's set just before the historic Blacks v Greens period