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Post by Stranger on Jan 22, 2015 19:23:29 GMT
I would like to bring up the Attractive benefit and Orokos rolls. I see people using the Attractive benefit in rolls by using the "r1" in their roll formula. This makes it so that you reroll all 1s, no matter how many come up. The Attractive benefit only allows you to reroll a number of 1s equal to half your Persuasion rank, unless I'm mistaken and reading it incorrectly.
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Warrior
Sub-Narrator
The Warrior stands before the foe, protecting us where e'er we go.
Posts: 220 
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Post by Warrior on Jan 22, 2015 19:50:56 GMT
You're correct - see latest version of chapter 5: "Attractive - Whenever you roll a Persuasion test, you may re-roll a number of 1s equal to half your Persuasion rank (minimum one re-roll)."
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Post by Ayleth Bartheld on Jan 22, 2015 20:39:18 GMT
That's how it's usually done with webrollers such as this. We did that in SA, and we do it on myth-weavers. It's nice, neat and clean. Plus, the odds of you rolling more one's than half your persuasion tends to be slim.
For example, if you have 4D+2B, the chance of getting more than two 1's are 6.2%, which skews the average result up by 0.2 compared to straight by the book approach. In that specific example, your average result is 0.8 higher than it usually would be without the benefit if you go straight by the books. So I wouldn't say it's worth the hassle. The value of the benefit is it's effect on dispositions. It's situationally better than talented (persuasion) depending on how many dices you can bring into play as far as direct mechanics goes with the "shortcut", and slightly worse without. But Talented is generally worth less than keeping the destiny point unspent IMO, so that's no baseline.
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Post by Erryk Dulver on Jan 22, 2015 20:53:59 GMT
If we continue using Attractive that way, would we start applying it Guttersnipe as well? If so I won't mind at all  . I think there has been at least once where I rolled more 1s than what I was allowed to reroll lol. |
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Post by Ayleth Bartheld on Jan 22, 2015 21:05:15 GMT
Well, considering how horribly useless Guttersnipe is as written, I would say yes.
Though I would also advice you to swap out Guttersnipe with something else. Even talented is better. And see my comment on talented.
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Post by Stranger on Jan 22, 2015 21:06:38 GMT
I honestly don't have a problem with continuing to use it in this fashion of there are no objections since it does avoid some clutter, is simpler, and is drastically game changing. Though if we do it with Attractive it should also be done with other benefits that only allow a certain number of 1 rerolls.
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Harwyn Storm
House Tullison
Sharpening arrows for tomorrow's hunt.
Posts: 126
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Post by Harwyn Storm on Jan 22, 2015 21:15:35 GMT
Well, considering how horribly useless Guttersnipe is as written, I would say yes. Though I would also advice you to swap out Guttersnipe with something else. Even talented is better. And see my comment on talented. Wait, we could swap benefits? I would love to swap my Accurate for Animal Cohort (dog) since I now realize i don't really need it. Sorry for going off topic. |
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Post by Stranger on Jan 22, 2015 21:21:17 GMT
See the last few sentences of the second paragraph under "Investing Destiny Points" on page 72. This should really only be done at the end of a story or during some particularly significant event during a story.
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Post by Symon Kytley on Jan 22, 2015 21:55:52 GMT
Mea culpa! I didn't even think about the reroll limit. It is certainly more convenient to use the r1, but I will follow the general decision. I would not have a problem with it being applied to all "reroll 1" abilities.
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Post by Stranger on Jan 23, 2015 20:56:16 GMT
Well, here's the thing, if we do this with Attractive then it should be done across the board with benefits that only give a limited number of 1 rerolls. This list includes the following:
Attractive
Blood of the Ironmen
Blood of the Rhoyne
Dexterous
Guttersnipe
Keen Senses
If there are no objections then I don't have problem with it either. If Attractive rerolls all 1s then so does everything else on the above list.
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Post by Damon Nettles on Jan 23, 2015 21:10:12 GMT
So basically, we're giving all these benefits a power up because it takes a bit longer to write in the necessary rolls at orokos? Was anyone who was using these benefits feeling dreadfully short-changed by the limitations? But sure. If the majority vote is for changing the way all of the listed benefits work, then fine with me. I don't mind a free power up. |
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Post by Stranger on Jan 23, 2015 22:18:15 GMT
As far as I know, the only person who was using their benefit as was written was Erryk, I think Roland might have as well during a Warfare (Tactics) test at one point or another.
At this point nothing has been confirmed and no one has made an argument one way or another except for Ayleth. If anyone else (player or sub-narrator) wanted to throw in their coppers on whether or not this is an unnecessary, game breaking, or necessary change. But I figured it should be brought up and rekindled again as a topic since Attractive is one of the most commonly used benefits by characters who even only built to intrigue second hand to their primary role in this game.
I also thought it necessary to list all of the benefits that work similar to Attractive so everyone understand that if we made the change it that it should and would be applied to these as well.
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Post by Erryk Dulver on Jan 27, 2015 16:12:19 GMT
Well, I obviously don't have a problem with it. Seems only fair if one benefit gets it that way then so do all the others.
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Post by Symon Kytley on Jan 27, 2015 16:29:58 GMT
I would note that many of those benefits are based on bonus dice in a specialty. I would say that if you only qualify for one reroll it should be done manually, otherwise the r1 orokos code is fine. Or we should all do it manually. The big reason for dividing it there is that with only one reroll you must keep the reroll if it comes up as a 1 again; rerolling rerolls is the messiest part.
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Post by Reynard Camshir on Jan 27, 2015 16:51:01 GMT
I'm going to have to agree with Damon. It would only be a minor inconvenience for anyone having to reroll their ones. Blood of the Andals has a similar dynamic, although not exactly the same, and it doesn't bog me down at all.
Also, it would prevent any accidental abuse.
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. I think there has been at least once where I rolled more 1s than what I was allowed to reroll lol. 
It's set just before the historic Blacks v Greens period